Lots of activity on social media regarding the latest Hall of Fame voting. David Ortiz is in. SU says that is a no-brainer. He had a sustained, long great career as a DH. Killed the Yankees year after year. Big hugs for everyone. Rumor has it that the Yankees will brush him back on the podium up in Cooperstown while making his acceptance speech as they try to make up for 15+ years of never making him uncomfortable at the plate (all the while Pedro was beaning Jeter and Soriano). OK, not going there.
The bigger story seems to be that Clemens, Bonds, Schilling will no longer be on the official ballot as their 10 years are up. Long-time subscriber J. Rosen had this comment on yesterday’s SU:
“Just read that for those that are in their 10th and final year on the writers ballot hope is not lost. The modern era committee can vote to let them in as soon as next year. So all those sanctimonious writers may be disappointed when Bonds and Clemens get in in the near future. Both top 10 of all time and never officially broke the rules, unlike ARod who knowingly cheated and lied multiple times. That’s my line of demarcation. McGwire should be in too IMO.“
SU says Bonds and Clemens (and A-Rod) were clearly top 10 players in their era and possibly all time (and McGwire) but whether they admitted it or not, they all cheated the game. The reality is that they were Hall of Famers before they started juicing and put up those types of numbers. Is there a positive test result? No, there is nothing official like that although if there was an “a-hole” test, Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling would have all failed in grand fashion. SU has a soft spot for A-Rod and I don’t put him in that category. But he still cheated. I say these guys don’t pass the smell test. Voting for the Hall of Fame is not an exact science. We evaluate what we saw over the years. It was great watching these guys play and you could easily see how their body types changed over time.
If the Hall of Fame was a museum, then sure, they should all be in there – no doubt. You would have the PED Wing and you could display all of their PED-aided achievements. That is history and you are telling the history of baseball in the 1990s and early 2000s. But if the Hall of Fame is for achievement and playing by the rules, then why should they be in there? Again, you may not have the “proof” but we all saw it.
SU was actually surprised at how many sports writers are appalled that these guys are not in. And truth be told, the Modern Era committee or whatever that is will likely put them in later in the year. But for SU, they would not be on my ballot.
Feel free to disagree or agree. All comers are welcome per usual.
Sports Update Intergalactic 
Ortiz tested positive for an unknown substance (read: steroids) in ‘03. What’s the justification for electing him (on the first ballot, no less) but punishing Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, et al? In my eyes, they are all PED-using deniers, so it’s hard for me to see a difference in their history that could justify such a stark difference in voter perception. Is Ortiz really just that likeable?
Eric, I have read that the test may have been flawed in relation to Big Papi. Rob Manfred even alluded to that.
I think Arod was a wife beater. If my memory is still OK. I think if that is true he should not be allowed in. The question on the steriod guys is were they Hall of Fame material before they took steriods. Maybe?
Tony, I have never read that about A-Rod. I don’t think that is correct. There are other issues obviously but not that one with his wife.
Ortiz is a no brainer. Good job. I think we’re past the time when people didn’t think DHs belong. There are DHs on the field and their hits and runs count in the games so they should count for the HoF. We all saw what Ortiz did on the field all those years when he got all those big hits, nobody wondered, ‘if only he played a defensive position…’
Bonds and Clemens belong in the HoF. It’s a joke without them. I will include Rose and ARod here as well. I was at the Hall last year and there was no opportunity to discuss memories of these dominant players. Instead I’m standing there like an idiot trying to conjure some memory of what it was like to watch Ted Simmons play the game. Ted Simmons! Yes, he was inducted last year. I remembered that he made the all star team a few times but that’s all I had. Some of the greatest players to ever step on the field are left out while the statistics guys try to identify the diamonds in the rough. The great players you never knew were great. The guy who led the league for doubles by a left-handed hitter after the 6th inning for 3 years in a row.
I think I’ve written about this here before but I will blame the media for a lack of imagination when reading the Mitchell Report. There were a couple big names and they jumped all over them. I understand. This gets the headlines. But it misses the point of the report. If you read the report you see that the bottom line is that a lot of people were using performance enhancing drugs. Maybe everybody. If not everybody, maybe something close to it. Mitchell didn’t just name Clemens but also Andy Pettitte and David Justice and Chuck Koblauch and dozens of others. Some were stars. Most were not. Most of the names were on the Yankees and Mets but that’s just where the investigation went. The sources were mostly connected with those teams. But there were some from other teams and the way these players move through trades and free agency you know that every city had people supplying these drugs. It is clear that there was a lot of networking going on and there’s no way that every player didn’t know what was going on and it’s likely that many participated I don’t like that these guys cheated. And I’m glad they got caught. But I know there are likely many in the HoF who didn’t get caught. And I know that PEDs defined the game for nearly a generation. The games counted. Nobody refunded the money I spent on tickets or beer at those games. The players should appear in the HoF.
Only nit-pick is: if the A-hole test is valid for leaving people out, i have to disagree and say A-Rod is poster child for A-hole exclusion right along side Clemens and Bonds. I will never forget the charade he played out with the Yankees and their doctors when he tried to defend his steroid use and blame everyone else at the time of his suspension. Look up A-hole in Wikipedia and you will see A-Rod’s picture (although it gets taken down periodically but J-Lo keeps putting it back up).
I’m disappointed in the voting. Life long Red Sox fan, but hard to understand the logic of letting Ortiz in on his first ballot while keeping Clemens and Bonds out. Looks and feels like a popularity contest. And Schilling is a whole other story. Keeping a guy out because the writers don’t like his politics is a very slippery slope. I love the HOF but I am getting increasingly disillusioned with year as time goes by
I am tired of these coward sportswriters hiding behind the anonymity of the voting process. You made your point – you kept Bonds and Clemens out for the first 9 years. Congratulations, you are above society, have a closet with zero skeletons in it, and can cast the first stone. They failed when they had the opportunity to vote them in in year 10 as they both (in my opinion) are clear cut Hall of Famers and deserve enshrinement. Can one of them legitimately look in the mirror and convince themselves (and the rest of us) that Larry Walker and Roy Halladay are more deserving than Bonds and Clemens? Come on.
Of course I am one who also thinks that if you are going to let in Bagwell and Biggio you cannot pass on Rafael Palmeiro based on his achievements on both offense and defense (and achievements in both college and pro). In terms of McGwire, can anyone who was over the age of four in 1998 state that McGwire’s pursuit of 62 was not one of the most exciting things ever to happen over the course of any sports season? He electrified the sports world and the first thing we checked every morning was whether he hit a home run the night before. Pair that season with his career statistics and success in the postseason (as the best player on the roster) and his Hall case is outstanding. Hey, everyone knew “something was up” but who cared? Not me then and not me now.
It was an era where not only were the games top performers taking some sort of enhancer, those struggling to make a MLB roster were as well.
The reason we don’t have more 300 game winners and players with more than 3,000 hits is not because of skill level, it is because bodies break down after thousands of repetitions both in practice and during a 162 game season. Some took substances such as “greenies” and some took the “cream” or the “clear” just to make it from one day to the next.
Time heals all wounds. It’s disappointing that nine years was not long enough to heal the wounds for Bonds and Clemens.
A-Rod discussion for another day.
Just a small correction, the HOF committee is the Today’s Game committee (1988 – Present) For some reason the Modern Era ended in 1987. Probably also the last time Baseball was still considered America’s Pastime.
Let’s remember that Bud Selig is in the HOF. He was the commissioner that oversaw the devastating lockout/strike of 1994 that canceled the World Series. (He was also guilty of collusion but that’s besides the point) He not only looked the other way when the steroid era took hold, I’d say he encouraged it. I did not see him admonishing McGwire and Sosa as they filled the stands in the epic HR record chase of 1998. I recall being at Shea stadium that summer and giving McGwire a standing ovation as he hit 2 HRs to beat the home team Mets. It was a phenomenon and it was a wonderful summer of baseball that had finally put the bitterness of 1994 behind. McGwire never hid that he had taken “protein shakes” to “be all that he can be”. After all, “the chicks dig the long ball”.
My point is that teams, players, hedge funds, etc. always try to get there edge. Many will push it to the limit,. Some will push it over the limit. If you broke the rules you should be out. If you worked the system to your advantage at the expense of others (Bill Belicheck) you may be a jerk but not a criminal. It was not until several high school students died from steroid related issues that the public and congress started to pressure MLB and other sports governing bodies to crack down. This had become a societal problem.
We will see over the years how history judges and if the HOF committee decides to show some grace, which is sadly lacking in our modern twitter world. Last I looked Joe Morgan was on the committee so Bonds and Clemens may need to wait a bit longer.
The multi-million-dollar question is how long were these cheaters on steroids? Do you know. yes, I’m sure that the earlier part of their careers they may have been pure…though even then you’d still never know. The point is THEY CHEATED….period. Pete Rose had an illustrious career. I’m not sure how often he might have made bets but when it came to pure baseball stats he is a definite first ballot Hall of Famer… and could have received 100% of the votes. I feel a CHEATER is far worse than being a bettor. His name was Charlie hustle… not Charlie Once-In-Awhile Hustle. Furthermore, how did Barry Bonds look more like Hulk Hogan in his last few years and not be flagged immediately as a USER. “C’mon Man.” Lastly, though Pete rose was and remains to a lesser degree ARROGANT…. Does Bonds, Clemmens and Shilling differ?
You want to put all these guys in, including Rose then develop a section in the Hall with Darth Vader at the entranceway welcoming those who want to see great players with a dubious past. I’m sure visitors will be vaccinated. I’m sure we can find some other assholes to enter this special area of “distinction.” Just don’t leave your social security number with anyone.